Excuse Me, Mr. Lawyer. Can We Kill Some Pirates Now?
Apr 13th, 2009 by Rick Arms
The good news is that President Obama finally authorized the military to kill the pirates who had held an American citizen hostage for five.
The bad news is that President Obama couldn’t give the authorization until he had cleared it with a few government lawyers, which is why it took five days.
The bad news is that President Obama couldn’t give the authorization until he had cleared it with a few government lawyers, which is why it took five days.
Obama’s involvement in the decision to authorize lethal force was legally required, officials said, because it was a hostage situation, not combat, and unrelated to the already authorized U.S. effort against Al Qaeda and other terror groups, officials said.
“It’s not a combat operation, so the lawyers wanted to ensure this was done right,” said a second defense official.
Yeah, might as well make sure everything was done “right”, just like we did in the days before 9/11. Going back to the bad old days when lawyers ran our military policies couldn’t possibly end badly, could it?
Of course, the adminstration could also have done a quick internet search for “Barbary Pirates” or “Mayaguez incident” just to see how we’ve handled such attacks in the past. That would have gotten Captain Phillips out of harm’s way a couple days sooner.
So, yes, President Obama eventually took the right decision. Good for him, but I’m not ready to give him a cookie for it. When pirates attack American shipping, we should send forth our military to destroy them and their operation, which ensures that pirates will not attack our shipping well into the future. That is not only a no-brainer but the only right answer. He gets no great credit from me for doing what he is supposed to do later than he should have because he had to stop and ask permission first. To get the gold star and the A++, he’s going to have to exceed expectations.
Thomas Jefferson killed pirates so effectively that, until last week, no American ship has been attacked by pirates in 200 years. I suggest that President Obama use Jefferson as his guide for dealing with future piratical hostility.
Up Date: Pirates Attack More Ships And Vow Revenge
Expect the issue of pirates — and possibly escalations of violence by pirates — to continue to grow because there are already signs that the pirates operating off Somalia intend to send a signal that the U.S. operation that freed a captive and ended in the deaths of three of their comrades won’t stop them, and may even spur them on.
The breaking news is that the pirates are seizing more ships, vowing revenge and that the U.S. military takes them very seriously. The amusing images of Peter Pan’s Captain Hook and Johnny Depp will soon be falling to the wayside as this battle between nation states, shipping corporations, a country that is a shambles, and clans that have a lucrative business model shift into higher gear.
Pirates attacked two more cargo ships Tuesday, continuing a spate of hijackings despite recent U.S. and French military action against hijackers in the waters.
NATO spokeswoman Shona Lowe told the Associated Press that the M/V Sea Horse, a Lebanese-owned cargo ship, was attacked and captured Tuesday by pirates in three or four speedboats. She had no further information.
Pirates also attacked and seized the M/V Irene between 1 and 2 a.m. local time Tuesday, about 100 miles southwest of Al Mukalla, Yemen, according to the U.S. Fifth Fleet in Bahrain and pirate trackers. The ship was a St. Vincent and the Grenadines-flagged vessel, managed by a Greek company, and crewed by just over 20 sailors.
Pirates also took two Egyptian fishing boats — with a combined crew of up to 24. And pirates are now vowing to increase the body count — with people not from their side:
Jama’ Si’ad, a member of the Somali pirates in the coast of Somalia has vowed on Tuesday that they will kill and revenge from any of the American and French forces they capture in the Somali coast.
“We are very sorry for what happened to our friends who were shot and killed by the French and American marines. But we will pay a quick reaction of that killing. If we capture any of the American or French citizens, we will kill them with guns, swords and any kind of weapons we can,” said Jama’
Meanwhile, the U.S. military says it takes the pirates’ threats seriously and is prepared, AFP reports:
The US takes “seriously” threats from Somali pirates to avenge the deaths of fellow thieves killed by US Navy snipers, the Pentagon’s top officer, Admiral Michael Mullen said Tuesday.
“I certainly take their comments … seriously,” said Mullen, chairman of the US joint chiefs of staff, speaking to ABC television, after US Navy snipers on Sunday ended a five-day hostage drama by killing three pirates.
Mullen said the US military is giving careful consideration to the risk of an increase in aggression during future pirate attacks in the perilous waters off Somalia.
“We’re very well prepared to deal with anything like that. And that would certainly be part of our review militarily,” he said.
Mullen added that review was part of an ongoing US military effort to confront the scourge of banditry on the open seas.
“We’ve … initiated a review on the joint staff to look broadly and widely and deeply at the overall strategy,” he said.
Taken together: this indicates the struggle will escalate…
C’mon Rick. Everybody was going nuts wondering what went on and whether Obama was actively engaged in the situation. Speculation was rampant, and the “ZOMG he’s another CARTER!!!” was pretty over the top.
Is there some spin in the aftermath? No doubt. But it’s really hard to complain with a straight face that they’re “all over the press patting themselves on the back” in a negative way, when the situation ended so well.
Just trying to put a damper on some of Michael’s gushiness. The situation calls for an “attaboy, well done” and not much more. As I say in the piece, the challenge now is to strike at the pirate’s infraustructure while putting some kind of international agreement to try and stop the dumping - but only after the pirates are smashed.
How do we stop pirates, the age old solution, dead pirates.
Start with arming the ships.
1. Arm the crews
2. If captured hang the pirates from the yardarm
3. Piracy stops
Does anyone know if arming the crew would be legal? It wouldn’t surprise me if there’s some law against it either in this country or the countries where these ships have to dock.
It’s a very localized problem , invade , rinse and repeat.
Oh it’s a lawless area , well thats bad , for them.
UN Resolution B52.
mount 50 caliber’s they will dissuade any skiff and have a very long range.
Oh and 4. Start shelling and bombing some of the known pirate enclaves.
ED, you are trying to think logically. We are now in the middle of Hope and Change.
Hit the Somali ports - the Pirates “safe havens”. Hit them where they live on the land.
Put a bounty on the head of every pirate and only pay it for dead pirates…
“I’d bet dollars to donuts we’ve already identified most of them. Our next step after killing the pirates on the lifeboat is torpedoing their ships in their home ports without inspections or even warnings.”
No, don’t kill them; pluck out their right eyes & cut off their left legs at the knee. Then everyone will recognize that they’re pirates. Arrrr.
Let me get this straight. The Washington Post suggest arming a ship’s crew to protect themselves and their property, yet they have been against American citizens in Washington D C doing the same thing? No contradictions here!
Na, just shoot them in the head and dump them in the water close to the shores of their homes.
“Does anyone know if arming the crew would be legal? It wouldn’t surprise me if there’s some law against it either in this country or the countries where these ships have to dock.”
And we should care exactly why? There is no such thing as international law, its a modern affectation, and illusion fostered by law school professors; there may international cooperation and international agreement, but without some kind of enforcement capability there is no law.
In the case of piracy “international law” has always come at the end of some navy’s hangman’s noose.
One has to remember, Obama looks at the pirates as victims, and also as prospective voters in a One World Govt…..
They’re liberals, what were you expecting from them? Logic and honesty???
The first step would be to keep the D of J out of it. It’s a military operation. Also, limit Mr. President’s role as much as possible, unless he grows a spine between now and then. Strategically strike Somalia and let the pirates know that there are consequences for attacking Amiercan vessels.
These pirates attack from small open boats. A few containers of flammable liquid dropped into those open boats, followed by a flare from a flare gun, and the attacks stop.
If the pirates want to escalate from small arms to heavy weapons, then merchant ships should have the option to carry small arms or mount small guns.
If ports refuse entry to armed merchant vessels, then the merchant fleet should refuse to carry cargo destined for those ports. If insurance carriers refuse to issue insurance for pirate infested transit points, again merchant fleets should refuse to transit those areas.
This isn’t difficult, either fight back, pay the bribes, or don’t go into those areas.
We are a superpower. Check that, we are THE superpower and should act like it. When countries FEAR us, they are no longer a threat to us. The problem is that we are more concerned with ‘winning hearts and minds’ than making sure other countries do what we say because we are bigger and stronger than they are.
It’s my stance on Pakistan. . . although I recognize the difference between a sovereign state and international waters. And I also understand that Pakistan has nuclear weapons which makes consideration different (but shouldn’t).
Good aggressive post using out power as we should. . . to protect our national interests - no matter the international outcry.
It is truly hilarious to watch uneducated 3rd world teenagers run circles around the “smart Western countries”.
LOL
What can we do? Oh my!
We need Senate hearings!
Full-steam ahead.
The captured pirate should be released into the United States, given full citizenship, and a tax refund.
While we can certainly defeat the pirates if we get over the lawyers and “human rights” cretins, we should not forget there are two factors about why this has become an issue. Obviously, our servile Political Correct posture encourages piracy, but the other factor is Islam. Mohammed was a bandit, and every since muslims have engaged in piracy and banditry to make themselves prosperous. In fact, the United States’ first war was against the muslim pirates of Morocco, Algeria, and Libya who were looting our ships and enslaving American citizens.
What’s with all the lawyer bashing??? Lawyers don’t make the law, they just study it and tell you what is legally permissible under given circumstances. I’m sure it was a lawyer somewhere that helpfully pointed out it was okay to kill the SOB’s.
F**k em.
No. Kill them. Let the sharks “F**k em”.
You hit the nail on the head. We need to destroy the ships. We need to stop this nonsense.
btw..anyone hear Laura Ingraham say the Bobby Rush and a few others want to apologize for the Marine hymn. “the shores of Tripoli” is offensive.
Good grief!
Seems simple to me.
Take an old freighter fill the containers with several flavors of special ops guy’s, wait for an attack, presto! Keep doing it until they stop or all are dead. I know. Entrapment,attractive nuisance, lawsuits etc. F**k em.
Q-ships (what your idea was called way back…) are expensive.
If losses are high enough, then they make sense.
Losses are not (currently) high enough.
Besides, these are low-tech pirates. The cost of one of their boats is lower than the cost of one of our torpedoes. Not cost-effective. Arranging a pirate interdiction task force would be a Good Idea
You do realize that being a Somali warlord doesn’t pay real well…don’t you? Sink three or four of their revenue-generating boats in the harbor and they’re bankrupt again, for starters.
Then send the navy ships that we have now steamed into the Gulf on a few months of targeted destruction/deterrence. The navy is on the payroll whether they’re Somalia or San Diego, as you know.
The last thing I would do is go into that shithole of a country and risk great lives searching out these maggots. Bomb them if we know locations. Sink boats. But don’t spend a single American life.
I don’t care if Somalia ever leaves the 7th century and becomes civilized. I wish better for their children, but it’s not our job.
So let me get this straight… Before this incident pirates threatened to kill their hostages if ransoms weren’t paid.
Now pirates are threatening to just kill Americans and French in retaliation for the US killing three pirates.
I was surprised to find out that people bought insurance so ransoms could be paid to pirates. I didn’t think we negotiated with terrorists (which is sort of how I classify pirates).
So while the pirates may not have killed people before…. I guess they are now, which really DOES make them terrorists.
On top of that I guess pirates won’t be geting any money from the French and Americans. I guess the French and Americans won’t be buying any insurance against pirates since they’ll be killed if they are held hostage.
I always wondered why the pirates were never confronted, now I know: they held people hostages, ransoms were paid and everyone went back to business as usual, including the pirates.
It’s about time the civilized world stands up to these outlaws.
I still do not understand why these huge ships in these waters off the coast of Africa do not have trained multinational armed fighters protecting them! The international law needs to be swiftly changed! I would put a safe bet that if these huge tankers had 50 caliber mashine guns on each end protecting them this pirate activity would cease immediatly! The only reasons I have heard for not doing this? Insurance and international law. There are many countries falling victim to these lawless pirates. These pirates need to be blown out of the water a few times and I bet pirating would be finished!
[shrug]
Mines in the harbors and along the coasts, chemicals on the beaches and on the port facilities would constitute “Operation Round-Up.” The littoral zone is the root of the piracy problem proper [tm]; just sever the line of activity at the trunk and “root.” No need to invade Somalia or bomb farther inland.
Admittedly this won’t be done and may offend many (including those who aren’t fans of Big Bio-Tech), but it would work.
Either that or a conventional blockade, as a substitute for or a prelude to a larger enterprise later (uh-oh).
How about radwaste rather than chemicals on their beaches and port facilities, or actual rad warfare (cobalt-60, say)?
[scratching chin, smiling evilly]
“Our latest hijackings were meant to show that no one can deter us from protecting our waters from the enemy because we believe in dying for our land,” Omar Dahir Idle
No Problem Omar we are experts at making people die for their land! ;Consider it arranged!
Does Obama really deserve any credit (sincere or backhanded) for the successful albeit violent end to the hostage standoff with the pirates? I understand that the military had orders to use force only if there was imminent danger to Phillips life – while the Obama team negotiated. Imminent danger happened to coincide with a couple of the pirates sticking their heads out of the lifeboat for some fresh air – lmao.
Credit the commander for seizing the opportunity to free Phillips and taking the risk because the Obama administration would be crapping all over him had he failed. The “imminent danger” order is just another example of the limp dick at the wheel.